Welcome to Real Talk on AI and I care with your host, Dr. Scott Morris. And I'm co host, Dr. Rehan Ahmed.
In each episode, we discuss current news, adding a little AI education, and debate innovative AI tools and topics that will change the industry. All right. Hello, everybody. This is Scott Rayon.
We are super excited today. We're going to talk about our experiences at Vision Expo West 2025. And we'll kind of do that as news of our day and combination, just have a conversation. But in the spirit of what we always do is we always try to introduce one new topic for everybody to kind of learn and listen to.
And today we're going to talk a little bit about AI models. And I think one of the concepts I heard Rayon at Vision Expo is people are starting to really confused about what AI is. And I think maybe this is a good time to go back and kind of maybe be very clear about the different kinds of AI. And so I wanted to do the knowledge by today and I.
So think of it at this. And we all hear the buzz, but you know, when we think about what are really the different types of AI? Well, I think AI is just like this huge umbrella of topics of which you have machine learning, which is where the computer kind of learns from data. So we have to train the computer to do data.
Kind of with or without being explicitly programmed kind of situation, then you have deep learning, which is maybe a little bit further and that's kind of a little subset, I guess, of machine learning. We're using neural networks and complex structures. And these models, you know, they're really great if you get my ton of unstructured data like images and video and audio and all that kind of stuff. The biggest challenge we have in I care is we don't have access to all that data to really change these deep learning models.
And that's something I think we'll probably talk a little bit about some of the things we saw in vision expo. And then finally, which is really kind of the hot topic right now, which is gender of AI. I mean, everybody when you think of AI, they're thinking of GPT or Gemini and even I mean, we ran, we've fallen to a trap about kind of getting sidetracked on that particular avenue, which is the gender of AI. You know, that's where you have these models that they analyze data and they create or they generate new content.
But once again, the challenge in I cares where are they learning the data from since we don't have open access data models necessarily about things we did. I mean, obviously they can read journals and do all the stuff that's in print and the stuff that you and I write and all the other authors write. But that's that's some kind of data, but that's not all the data that's out there that it could potentially learn from. So mean in a nutshell, I think there's two big avenues, right?
There's generative AI and let's call it. I think we talked about it last time we did a podcast of let's call old school AI, which is machine learning deep learning and all that kind of stuff. And you know, I think maybe this is that transition where we start talking a little bit of vision expo is. I saw some companies really heavy on the generative AI side and I was like, where are you getting your data from.
But I saw a lot more companies that were thinking a little bit more of old traditional AI, especially the diagnostic AI companies going, but we're going to create our own data models and we're going to learn from those data models and we're going to make our little piece of the world diagnostic data. And I think that's not the case, but that's a big issue. And then I think I think that's the point of taking a look at the data data data based, then what's out there now, because I think I, you know, OCTs, obviously, right now that was a big topic at Vision Expo, everybody's got AI and their OCTs and. You know, I think about how we read no CT now is you read it and I read it and maybe we read it the same maybe we learned the same maybe we don't need the same and maybe we can see what's happening.
I do think diagnostic AI, which is kind of that old school AI is going to teach us all kinds of stuff. I mean, I saw some fascinating, you know, diagnostic AI at Vision Expo, but so there's a little bit of the knowledge bite and now we're going to kind of transition into some of the cool things we saw AI or saw at Vision Expo West. First of all, just do it all self promo, you know, we had a great meeting for those of you were in attendance at the AI summit, which was held Wednesday. We had a great meeting in terms of the audience, it was full house, you've standing room only people had a lot of great questions with a good time on the panel.
We learned a lot in terms of that. So I want to thank everybody was there and everybody that supported it and all the vendors who supported it. It was a huge meeting. We look forward to the next one we're going to do.
Yeah, it was fantastic. It was such a good time. I came back and I think I lost my voice for a day and I had such a good time at Vegas that yeah, I definitely had to recover for a couple of days afterwards. Of course, only in the only in the convention hall, but fantastic meetings got your right of standing room only and I thought the speakers.
Again, no self promotion, but we you know that everyone did a great job, great questions from the audience afterwards. And the convention hall was a buzz with all sorts of products talking about AI and I think we're going to talk a little bit about that. But I'll say from the meeting might take away. It was my first time meeting Dr.
Cadary, Dr. Hizzard Cadary. And boy, he is he is smart guy, man. I think I had lunch with him.
I had like three meals with him afterwards. I had like lunch and two dinners with him just to picking his brain and talking to him. This is fantastic. And the take away slide.
The message from his talk was the division industry and talking about three O's. You know, all of us optical ophthalmology optometry. We have to start playing chess. Not checkers.
What's so funny is my big topic from that whole thing was actually one of his slides too. You're either at the table or you're on the main 100% 100%. And we think that because we're close to the eye and a diagnostic realm that we see patients and their eye problems that we somehow are just by law are guaranteed the future of that. And we think that's just going to happen.
He gave you a great example of blackberry circa 2006 or seven or whatever. And no one thought they would be dethroned so quickly. But the truth of matters and there are a lot of devices that are close to the eye and there's no there's no rule or guarantee that we will be the ones in the future. And so I love how we talked about eye care being split off into hardware applications and services.
And we're just starting hardware frames lenses sort of additional stuff services obviously the eye care provider that that's the obvious stuff and then applications that's diagnostic because so much more now I think the application bucket includes all the AI stuff we're doing the acolymer mix the super power stuff that we were able to do in terms of cardiovascular disease or Alzheimer's disease and talking about how I care truly is healthcare. And so that for me was the takeaway moment and I think just looking around the room when he was talking I think there was a there's a white hush and I think the audience got it that there's a little self realization that we might be on the menu. We might we might be on the menu because our market cap may be for the taking in a way. So that's great.
That's a good thing we saw a lot of heads up display and obviously they're during the meeting there was the whole meta launch you know of their new product and we think about hardware and I think there was a lot of conversation both in the exhibit hall and at the meeting and in the hallways about well what and I had a lot of guys come up guys and gals come and talk to me like well what do you think we should do about met and Oakley should we get in that market I'm like we're going to have to be in that market because the interface with the world. In my opinion and I kind of feel like a lot of people start to feel that way is no longer a phone it I think that I mean definitely we're in the infancy but I kind of wonder if how we're going to interact the world's not more through I wear than it is through anything else and so once again are we going to be at the table or are we going to be on the menu because now there's big fish Google Apple Amazon. Facebook getting into getting into I wear because it's the consumer interface with the world not just how they see the world yeah yeah and you know although I think a couple of months ago we had a column on this topic I'm not. Truthfully I'm not sold on that future I think there are a lot of issues particularly just with how that frame is going to fit on people maybe I'm just cynical from the from the Google glasses for years ago but yeah that is a that is a big big.
Part of it and it's also about the what sits on your nose and around your temples how that's going to interact with other aspects of health care like nuance I mean it's not. Yeah the nuance frame which are we actually had a patient they come in and go to you guys new nuance I'm like right. We just learn about yeah just how I care is connected to you know audiology fantastic and I know I know I know these and these have been thinking about I know several practice of audiology sort of side gays but that's so interesting and I'm using looking at I movements for Parkinson's or Alzheimer's and so there's a lot of stuff we can do that's not outside of the traditional retinal photography just because of where the I sit in relation to the rest of the world. So it's in relation to the rest of the body so and that's all hardware stuff like you said and then I think about you know the services piece and we learned a lot at the meeting there was a lot of conversation about the future of telemedicine and remote care and what that looks like and you know I.
We've had this on our podcast before for any to listen we talked about numerous the innovator podcast is maybe the traditional model I don't think that's ever really going to go away of providing care one on one face to face but I do see that maybe there's going to be other opportunities or other ways that we provide care that may not necessarily be in person face to face and once again I think we're really in the infancy of that you know I never. Never never bet my career on that one by any means but I think we could look back and go this was one of those turning points you know this little couple year period here where we start to in more remote diagnostics you know as we start looking at there is a lot of work you know the I think the most common word of the meeting was autonomous in the innovative world there was a lot of autonomous discussions like doesn't need staff and that's a way I always listen to we're like it doesn't need staff and then one of my staff cuts comes to me and say. Well did you see that you're not going to need a doctor and I'm like oh I was taken as a taught us being don't need staff my staff was looking at a ton of this man don't need a doctor I thought that was an interesting perception and I'm like maybe my bias is right. I don't think it's coming after someone else but I think this is where augmented intelligence makes a lot more sense that it's not about replacing it's about enhancing certainly will some jobs be reorganized but I think like you you had talked about and then our question answer section that we're going to have higher levels of of staff engagement we're going to have like customer success staff that sort of you know.
Yeah so that and I think you to your point about autonomous and other diagnostics I really think the exam is of the futures my takeaway was that it's going to be sort of deconstructed right we always talk about the gold standard exam of being one on one in person you know face to face and maybe that's the case but you know. Is it gold standard if you don't have an ocular mix or an AI based algorithm next to you may probably not you know maybe in the future that's not going to be so I think we're going to have a sort of a decomposed what different types of I exams and I really read what is an I exam actually agree I don't think it's all going to be I hate let's do a conference and I exam for everybody I think it's going to be patient demand that determines the examination not the insurance company. Yeah, I totally agree. Ultimately it'll be in a way we shape it but people often will decide by what's best you know for there for them and their eyes and their health and their wallet.
Well then we hear the last concept which was you brought up and this is kind of what you and I are pre meeting kind of talked about is. I think the other part about this was platform was access because as I went around and obviously you know around you and I you know we walk up the meetings and a lot of people know our faces and they're like well you know I want to be on the podcast or I want to do this one let me show you this cool thing that we're not showing everybody else was I thought was great I'm going to go we're like oh yeah we're going to see something nobody else to see him but I'm like if it's at the booth they're probably sure other people too. You know is that was the thing that concern me the most was everybody's developing all these cool new tools the question is. Is what is that access going to look like you know is it going to work across our total subscription model that we're doing now because I said they're looked at you know as I'm looking around shopping for my office I'm like oh my gosh I'm up to like 15 or 20 subscriptions every month I mean yeah that's crazy to think about.
I'm going to go to the pool I don't know if the owner I have to lease it but now all of a sudden the subscriptions are going to be that's a pretty significant chunk of change and so I kind of wonder two things and I'll be curious about your your impression of that is number one I thought that there was all these cool new innovative tools but no connectedness between them and that kind of was a concern to me and the number two is it made me realize that maybe our business model is starting to bring up the business model. I'm going to break in that we can't be a subscription fee all around and maybe those two things go together maybe they're separate but that was my big takeaway my big concern as I walk from booth to booth to booth listening to all the technology pitches on the customer but how are these all connecting together and you ever say well in EHR but I'm like okay you're dumping data in but what are they doing with the data so I I saw more cracks in the picture that I saw solutions. Yeah I mean I think the issue of access is a real real one and painful for a lot of AI startups in in healthcare and this is not just ophthalmology or optometry but it's impacting all sorts of AI startups that develop a really cool technology they spend the time to get an integration with some big EHR companies which shall remain nameless but you know they don't have a big presence and I care and then they get traction and then the EHR just develops its own solution. That does exactly the same thing and I think this is a this is a problem and I know there's actually legislation on opening up systems and making this less of an issue but this does concern me and I don't think I have a have an easy answer but I did have many conversations with EHR companies which are very productive and I think they are whizing up to the fact that they have to be developer friendly because a lot of these tools are being demanded by their customers.
And they need to be presented now on your point of subscription. You don't want to get a you know you don't want to be subscription to death right like I think my kids between my kids my wife we have like Netflix didney who you two I mean I think we're spending way too many. So many interfaces. But on the reason I like subscriptions and maybe I don't know Scott I think maybe it's a general not that we're a different generation but maybe it's just like a different mindset.
I like subscribe I have a visual field headset which is subscription based and I like it I like the subscription because it keeps the other company honest in the sense that if if their product doesn't advance if there's not software advancements. I'll switch my switching I have very low friction to switching with the subscription. I didn't buy it. So I'm going to keep them honest and they're going to keep developing it and the other thing a lot of companies will say after three years you know we will give you the next greatest model.
And you get a subscription for that so I'm not like spend anymore yeah yeah so I think it's you know maybe they're different reasons to I mean from attacks purposes to not do it and I don't very well. I think there's a there's a place for subscriptions not always but those are reasons I think about it sometimes. Yeah so I mean overall you know I I really enjoyed vision expo unfortunately it's the last time it's going to be in Vegas for a while which is kind of disappointing I always love the atmosphere of Vegas and you know all that type of stuff but I think there was some really cool innovative technologies that were coming out and I know that you and I were talking in our pre meeting about we're going to have a lot of these really cool new technology. In kind of a product spotlight we're going to start doing in part of the journal and we have a lot of really cool innovators come on an innovator podcast are going to talk about some of these really new and interesting things so I hope through all of the audience that you guys stay tuned and listen to our real talk.
We're going to start having a lot more guests on for this and round I might not be as much doing this together as we do it with other with other people. At our innovators have some fascinating things and we have some cool new features coming on which we're going to wait a couple weeks to kind of break down for you so please stay tuned listen to real talk watch the journal AI in I care dot com. Thank you everyone. You've been listening to real talk an AI and I care your weekly podcast to keep you informed about AI technologies revolutionizing I care.